#1 June 28th, 2005 12:20 AM

korova_mb

Member

Art & Men!

hi there,

i'm relative new out here, and i would like to say i love ism, great photography, some realy artistic, great girls with beautiful boddies al with personality.....
but i do have some comment, if it realy is an art-apparatus then wy don't we see men shoot theirselfs. it could be artistic and beautiful to. i would even concider to do it myself.

greetz

wantingscott

Member

Re: Art & Men!

me too.

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that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Art & Men!

me too.

ditto

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Have I ever lied to you before?

Head

Member

Re: Art & Men!

We tried, but the submissions were awful.  We concluded that men's egos obscure their artistic abilities.  Also, not many of them look good naked.

mzungu

Member

Re: Art & Men!

We tried, but the submissions were awful.  We concluded that men's egos obscure their artistic abilities.  Also, not many of them look good naked.

Whew! 

While I commend the idea, somehow.....  I just wasn’t looking forward to it-
of course, no one would be twisting my arm to look if I didn’t want to-

and, as an aside,  something that I was remembering - a quote from an old Don Henley song that I always resonated to; (even though I have other sorts of art around that I like...)
"Don't you know that Women are the only Works of Art"
 
I know, I should look up the exact reference, and ponder carefully if my hasty words might be misconstrued, but hey, I'm a Sagittarius, complete with foot-in-mouth disease!

nagaloo

Member

Re: Art & Men!

We tried, but the submissions were awful.  We concluded that men's egos obscure their artistic abilities.  Also, not many of them look good naked.

I think most could do a good job. I am pleased by the way the duos look with a guy in them. Maybe make it a men shot by women category to keep it tame or non vulgar. Is that what you fear or saw in the tests?
Stew

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The universe is unfolding as it should, and so are the girls on ISM. I love them all.

trebora

Member

Re: Art & Men!

We tried, but the submissions were awful.  We concluded that men's egos obscure their artistic abilities.  Also, not many of them look good naked.

LOL (i did so i can say it)

Part of my daily routine is making a jigsaw out if one of the pictures from the days folio.  I get a kick out of finding the bits and pieces and putting it all together.  Somehow I don't think it would be as fun with pictures of men though.

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One by one, the penguins slowly steal my sanity
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Head

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Righto Stew, since you're volunteering, post us in your folio and we'll put it to the Folio Review Board.

I think most could do a good job. I am pleased by the way the duos look with a guy in them. Maybe make it a men shot by women category to keep it tame or non vulgar. Is that what you fear or saw in the tests?
Stew

korova_mb

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Whew! 

While I commend the idea, somehow.....  I just wasn’t looking forward to it-
of course, no one would be twisting my arm to look if I didn’t want to-

and, as an aside,  something that I was remembering - a quote from an old Don Henley song that I always resonated to; (even though I have other sorts of art around that I like...)
"Don't you know that Women are the only Works of Art"
 
I know, I should look up the exact reference, and ponder carefully if my hasty words might be misconstrued, but hey, I'm a Sagittarius, complete with foot-in-mouth disease!

ok, a naked woman does always look good... but as a student art-photogaphy we often have to work with men to, and it take's so much more creative point off view to get somthing intresting, a pair of boobs always looks good even if it is a bad picture... but i can imagine if you let every boy shoot it clould becomme a messy site ;-)

see ya
ps.. sorry for my language but i'm from belgium....

nagaloo

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Righto Stew, since you're volunteering, post us in your folio and we'll put it to the Folio Review Board.

So Do I follow the site theme "shoot myself" or the suggested one of "men shot by women"?

The latter will be the greater challenge LOL since I dont have one of my own, woman that is I have a camera.

Stew

Ps Sorry Liandra I can quit smoking anytime never had a problem with it but the LOL's are hard to swear off of.

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The universe is unfolding as it should, and so are the girls on ISM. I love them all.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Well, Head,
here I am volunteering to take the abuse from the artistic public.  Even good ol' MPM. 

I think and have thought about what women are saying in their profiles about their fave spots on others.  More of a challenge than my own faves? 

You might be surprized by my sensitive, always young imagination, and a physique that aint all that decrepit.   I might even promise to buff my nails if it makes MPM happy.

And I already have a camera.  Do I burn it on to a CD and mail it?

It would be faster than uploading at 44K.

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Have I ever lied to you before?

wantingscott

Member

Re: Art & Men!

i have not much ego about my body, but that's part of my problem. i'm 6'2", athletic, 225 lbs.

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_________________________________________________
that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.

reneeM

Member

Re: Art & Men!

The response from the women so far seems pretty underwhelming

nagaloo

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Hey now Head made the offer to me not all you wanta bees. Just joking guys, at 280lbs I need to do my crunches before my shoot.
I have to make it artsy and not porno.

Stew

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The universe is unfolding as it should, and so are the girls on ISM. I love them all.

Belgareth

Member

Re: Art & Men!

The response from the women so far seems pretty underwhelming

It usually is when this subject rears it's head (no pun intended)

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wantingscott

Member

Re: Art & Men!

why do you think that is, reneeM?

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_________________________________________________
that's the way it goes. but don't forget, it goes the other way too.

EgonArbus

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Michelangelo's men are some of the most beautiful objects in all art. I defy anyone to tell me different.  Even his women were painted/sculpted from male models!

Yeah, I'll get kit off for this one too (perhaps then Liandra will make a pass at me, or is this not the point?)

Belgareth

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Michelangelo's men are some of the most beautiful objects in all art. I defy anyone to tell me different.  Even his women were painted/sculpted from male models!

Yeah, I'll get kit off for this one too (perhaps then Liandra will make a pass at me, or is this not the point?)

I don't argue your statement about the awful beauty of the Michelangelo male and female figures. However, he was an artist and, like all others of his calling, would create statues and painting as his eye wished to see them, rather than as perfect copied of the original.

Artists of all types, including photographers, have perpetuated this inaccuracy in their representation of the human body. I even do it myself using modern electronic techniques, airbrushing out the flaws and slightly repositioning limbs to create a more pleasing aspect of the model.

Mmmm - maybe with a bit of airbrushing and reshaping, I might be able to compete with the Davidesque male stripper - but that would be cheating - wouldn't it?????? Somehow I doubt that it would impress the lovely Liandra

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korova_mb

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Michelangelo's men are some of the most beautiful objects in all art. I defy anyone to tell me different.  Even his women were painted/sculpted from male models!

Yeah, I'll get kit off for this one too (perhaps then Liandra will make a pass at me, or is this not the point?)

talking about art you don't look at the work itself but at the state of mind it was made in..
people only start to apreciate michangelo again in the 19th century before it was a hel of a mess.. at the time it was made it was realy controverisal.. 1st ancient art and nudity were almost banned with the medici...  2. 70 % of men, maried or single had boyfriend(sexualy) it was realy common.. but no one talked about it.. so the david in his sexual pose has nothing to do with the bible.... but more about overthrowing the medici. who where baned from the city at that time...
nevertheless michelangelo is a great artist....

see ya
The belgium!!!

reneeM

Member

Re: Art & Men!

why do you think that is, reneeM?

I can't speak for other women, but that just doesn't get into my Id (Thanks, Liandra, for the perfect phrase).

Perhaps women want to personalize the experience more than men. I can get plenty aroused seeing a naked man that I like and know well, but pictures of a naked man who is a stranger doesn't do much for me sexually. On the other hand, I do get aroused looking at well-done photographs of women, like the ones on this site. The arousal looking at women seems to be as much sensual as sexual.

I'd like to hear what other women have to say.

voyeur2

Member

Re: Art & Men!

I can't speak for other women, but that just doesn't get into my Id (Thanks, Liandra, for the perfect phrase).

Perhaps women want to personalize the experience more than men. I can get plenty aroused seeing a naked man that I like and know well, but pictures of a naked man who is a stranger doesn't do much for me sexually. On the other hand, I do get aroused looking at well-done photographs of women, like the ones on this site. The arousal looking at women seems to be as much sensual as sexual.

I'd like to hear what other women have to say.

I thimk you have said it right in a lot of ways.  The women presented here are - to me- not usually sexually arousing, but most have a sensual quality about them that I like.  I also sometimes see that in men, imagining how a woman might see him in his prime, usually on vey high priced magazines selling to the uber rich.

I don't think my motivation is to get in to your ID, but perhaps to show that I may have learned a thing or two about how women's minds work on the sensual sexual level.

Seriously, I have no doubt that most women would not see me as sexy, - but can I show a sensual side of me?  Some do go for older men - though I may be really over qualified there!  Can I show my art?  And I do not mean necessarily me, but other men who would like to take part in the self expression of this art apparatus in an artistic way, having learned from about 10,000 examples.  We are slow, but not impossible to teach.

There is an unstated but strict limit on which women can have a folio presented here.  They are all - in the ordinary sense, healthy and beautiful.  Nobody obese, no anorexics, nobody with a less than pretty face, a narrow age range that sets the bar approximately below 35.

Prime breeding years, yes, but many women reach prime beauty when they have more experience on their face, in their minds, and, yes - on their bodies.

So this may not be a wank site, but its mighty close, despite the sort of protestations like used to be said about people who read Penthouse for the articles not the photos.

What the women seem to favor seeing is:
both male and female,
face
eyes
mouth
neck
hands
feet
legs
arms
torso front and back
butt
least chosen is cock on men

My wager is that there were lots of cocks big and small, lots of flexed muscle, little interesting posing, selectivity, composition, indication of character, imaginative bakground, or story line to the male shoots.

Just a guess mind you.  Head could put this guess to rest.

It is an Art Apparatus, and Head does get to make the rules however we, MPM or anyone else likes it.

Hmmm
rant rant rant.

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Have I ever lied to you before?

EgonArbus

Member

Re: Art & Men!

I thimk you have said it right in a lot of ways.  The women presented here are - to me- not usually sexually arousing, but most have a sensual quality about them that I like.  I also sometimes see that in men, imagining how a woman might see him in his prime, usually on vey high priced magazines selling to the uber rich.

I don't think my motivation is to get in to your ID, but perhaps to show that I may have learned a thing or two about how women's minds work on the sensual sexual level.

Seriously, I have no doubt that most women would not see me as sexy, - but can I show a sensual side of me?  Some do go for older men - though I may be really over qualified there!  Can I show my art?  And I do not mean necessarily me, but other men who would like to take part in the self expression of this art apparatus in an artistic way, having learned from about 10,000 examples.  We are slow, but not impossible to teach.

There is an unstated but strict limit on which women can have a folio presented here.  They are all - in the ordinary sense, healthy and beautiful.  Nobody obese, no anorexics, nobody with a less than pretty face, a narrow age range that sets the bar approximately below 35.

Prime breeding years, yes, but many women reach prime beauty when they have more experience on their face, in their minds, and, yes - on their bodies.

So this may not be a wank site, but its mighty close, despite the sort of protestations like used to be said about people who read Penthouse for the articles not the photos.

What the women seem to favor seeing is:
both male and female,
face
eyes
mouth
neck
hands
feet
legs
arms
torso front and back
butt
least chosen is cock on men

My wager is that there were lots of cocks big and small, lots of flexed muscle, little interesting posing, selectivity, composition, indication of character, imaginative bakground, or story line to the male shoots.

Just a guess mind you.  Head could put this guess to rest.

It is an Art Apparatus, and Head does get to make the rules however we, MPM or anyone else likes it.

Hmmm
rant rant rant.

I think this is spot on.  Personally, I've always had reservations about "artistic" content of this site and have never really bought the self-expression line and, dare I use the F-word, there is an undercurrent (actually, I feel it is much stronger than this) of body-fascism at work here.

Anyway, back to the male folios: I wonder how long it would be before we had the first masturbating male video (and would it be allowed)?

mzungu

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Very thought-provoking…

I was trying to imagine artistic or sensual pictures of the male corpus- as opposed to crass pornographic representations, which I think is the distinction that is being discussed here (?)  and I suddenly visualized a bushman, crouched with his bow drawn and aimed at a week’s rations for his extended family… then I imagined a Maasai, striding along in the TZ bush, fully "clothed" with sword, spear, club, and blanket blowing from one shoulder but otherwise, swinging free, as it were. (it occurred to me some years ago, hopping out of bed in the wee hours, nikkid as a jay-bird, clutching a .357 revolver, to investigate a noise in the yard- an armed man is NOT naked… anyway, I wondered, other than that I have lived in East Africa (I know, not Bushman territory of course, but the feeling is there..) why I was picturing these men and not some Western European?? 

Well, then it occurred to me that those men were accustomed to going about their daily business in what we would term a “Naked” state.         Hmm.

I agree with what I hope I correctly interpret Voyeur2’s remarks re “prime breeding years”  that men/males have for millions of years been visually attracted to the signals of prime fertility while females have other signals, which may include the presence of other fertile females (synchronous menstruation may be vaguely related too?…)

anyway, just some random thoughts…

“Men at Work”  ??   perhaps for them, it is more the movement, the un-self-conscious pose, rather than the, dare I say, display or implicit “come hither” (no pun int. !!) look of a scantily or unclad Woman?

liz

Member

Re: Art & Men!

In my mind, at least, one of the overarching goals of ISM is to change, or at least present an alternative of, the representation of women in mainstream "porn" or "erotica" or whatever you want to call what is essentially naked pictures. 

This is attempted by literally putting the camera into women's hands, thus giving them complete and utter control over how they, and their bodies, are represented.

Because women are the mostly commonly and most egregiously exploited, abused, used, etc., I think it is imperative that we protect this goal of the site.  It just wouldn't mean the same thing if men contributed.

That's really my concern, far more so than the fact that I just don't really dig naked men. 

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"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
            -Emma Goldman

liandra_dahl

Member

Re: Art & Men!

Michelangelo's men are some of the most beautiful objects in all art. I defy anyone to tell me different.  Even his women were painted/sculpted from male models!

Yeah, I'll get kit off for this one too (perhaps then Liandra will make a pass at me, or is this not the point?)

For the first time ever I find myself cheering a comment by EgonArbus. I think the idea that men can not be art is a complete fallacy, and is based on hegemonic male heterosexuality. This view is pushed so strongly and ubiquitously that no other perspectives are getting a look in. I have said before I would love to see men on this site, even if the good folios were few and far between.